The Broads - then & now

[NorfolkNog]

Hi Carol

That is a classic then and now, many thanks for sharing with us.

Interesting point about the wall, it does look to follow the building line quite faithfully although it looks as if it has been rebuilt, probably as you suggest using reclaimed materials as these would be readily to hand.

[DAYTONA-BILL]

I`ve just got to say, there are some absolutely fabulous pictures here, and it makes me think the broads were definately at there best many decades ago. Still, as they say "that`s progress". But if thats progress, then i would prefer to go backwards. Regards to all, and keep on posting the excellent pictures, as it makes me realise what i`ve missed out on. Regards to all............. Neil.

[Boaters]

What a fasinating thread have enjoyed it a lot.I saw the mention of the Pike in the Swan.I remember Bridget (the landlady at the time ,and for many years under Brewers Fare and when the pub was redecorated she decided to get rid of the " old fish "as she called it.This apparently caused some consternation with the regulars but she had made up her mind and " The Fish " now rests in the Museum of the Broads at Stalham.Worth a visit to see him alone I cant remember the story of his capture but I am sure someone can fill in the details of his "fame " .

[Flying Fortress]

Hi All,

Not being a photography buff myself I have by passed this thread until I read it right thru tonight.

Really interesting.

Thanks.

And while we are talking about big fish (well Roy was anyway) I wonder what happened to the big fish that used to populate the bar at The Barton Angler.

Rod

[AdnamsGirl]

For anyone interested in seeing more "Then & Now" pics of the Broads I can thoroughly recommend the new David Holmes book .... The Broads Through Time. Over 180 old and new comparison photographs with fascinating notes about each. His previous books of old photos and postcards of Broadland are sadly out of print but do crop up on Ebay every now and then and are also highly recommended.

The current book retails at £12.99 but can be bought on Amazon for £8.44 at the moment ... although they are only showing 1 left in stock! I recieved a copy as a late Christmas pressie yesterday and it's already been well thumbed!!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Broads-Through-Time-David-Holmes/dp/1848686420/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=IJE05HAJ4B37P&colid=2U2MNK4VGLZ3B



Carol

[plesbit]

Thanks for that Carol, will have to see about getting hold of one of those. I intend to step up this project this year - last year was a bit of a write off for me but I intend to make a bit more use of this year!

[AdnamsGirl]

As I mentioned earlier, I also haven't managed to do as much of this as I had hoped this year but David Holmes book has really inspired me to get out and get going again. I have a huge batch of Edwardian era postcards of the Broads which I am still working my way through to add to BM but there is a wealth of fantastic subject matter within for the Then & Now project. I really must get a batch printed out to take on my travels!

I have to say that it is those earlier images that I am keen to try and recreate (late 1800s-1940s) as they really do show the most dramatic changes to the area. The more I look into it and think about it, the more I realise just what a difficult task it is as there are so many unknown variables involved. There have been so many film and camera formats over the years ..... there were at least three different glass plate formats that I know of before you start getting onto film! I don't really know much about the history of cameras and film but I'm sure some internet searching would provide more information. A standard 35mm lens will produce a different sense of perspective and fore-shortening of scenes on different cameras and formats ...... you get the angle just a couple of feet out and everything looks different, not to mention the height at which the original image was taken. With the old plate cameras, the photographer was often bending over to take the photograph so, at 5' 10" tall, I could be taking my comparison photo from 2 feet further up than the original! It all makes a subtle difference.

Postcards often tend to make the best subjects to recreate but, as they were generally a standard size it means the original photograph was probably cropped to fit it so you have no idea in what format it was taken even if you could guess the focal length etc.

David Holmes has done some superb comparison photographs but has had similar problems in capturing the exact scene - he does actually mention the problem with not physically being able to stand in the same position as the original photographer in some instances because the once quiet streets are now extremely full of traffic most of the time!

I don't have a digital SLR and wouldn't class myself as a photographer by any means. I just tend to take multiple images on a point & shoot from several different positions at varying focal lengths and hope that one of them will turn out vaguely right!! I always photograph a larger area than the original scene so that I can then crop in to the same size as the original. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't .... sometimes I just have to say it's near enough and will do until I can try again!


Carol

[springsong]

I am afraid Carol you have completely lost me with focal lengths etc. I am totally a point and shoot person. The main problem with my photos is that so many were taken from a boat so I shall need to be afloat to reprise the pictures, if at all. Here is one from dry land I think Horning Staithe more or less where the dinghy dyke is now. Forgot to say 1946 Monarch with a Type 57 Bugatti in attendance.

[AdnamsGirl]

It's a bit early to be getting started on these properly, but as we were going up to Ludham today I decided to print off a few new subjects I wished to do for the Then & Now's and stopped off at Potter Heigham en-route.

This isn't a great effort for the time being as the sun happened to be in exactly the wrong place, but I will go back and re do it in a couple of months time when the evenings are lighter and it at least gave me the chance to do a test run! This is taken at the corner of Station road, opposite the Falgate, looking up towards the riverside area of the village. The shop on the corner is now a PO/ Stores .... the postcard dates from 1906 when the shop was owned by James Watts who sold groceries, provisions, drapery, haberdashery, boots, shoes and medicines. Covering all bases then !

The building has increased in size and now has an extension to the left. The house you can see on the opposite side of the road in the 1906 image still exists, but has lost it's chimneys. The building further back on the same side appears to have gone and has been replaced by modern housing.

I think it will make quite an interesting subject when I can get a better photo!


Carol

[AdnamsGirl]

I've had the old postcard below on my computer for a while and always thought "I bet that doesn't look the same anymore!". It dates from the 1930s/40s and is of Church Road in Potter Heigham.

Firstly ... I wasn't quite sure where the church was, but presumed it must be over the other side of the A149 in the main village. I had a check on Google maps last night and sure enough, I found it! Google maps is quite a useful tool for this project as it does help to pinpoint loations and I had a good look to see if I could work out where it might have been taken from given the obvious bend in the road. I was quite surprised to see that there was a pond along that road, but it is impossible to tell from Google whether it was in the right place to be the same pond.

We drove down there today and were shocked to discover that it is indeed the same pond! (Some stunningly beautiful old houses down there by the way). Just behind where the new photo was taken, on the left is what was obviously once an old brick barn which has now been converted into a home. It was impossible to get the exact postition that the original was taken from as it would have meant standing on their drive. The original was also, by the looks of it, taken from higher up than mine .... maybe from a haystack or window of the barn? The big conifer hedge seen in the modern would also have obscured the view had we been able to get the position right anyway.

The first house that you can see in the old postcrd is still there, but a few new houses have sprung up between it and the church in the intervening years. I presume that the low wall along the edge of the pond is the remains of that which you can see in the original photo. It was obviously a farm in it's day and it's interesting to see that the entrance to the field on the opposite side of the road looks to be still there in some form.

[plesbit]

A couple of nice jobs there Carol.

I look forward to getting stuck into this a bit more myself later in the year when the weather warms up a bit!

[AdnamsGirl]

I'm trying to sort out a batch of photos to print out ready for my next session of "Then & Nows" and thought I'd mention just how useful Google Street View is proving to be for the project. I have a stack of old postacrds of Martham and wondered just how much some of the views had changed, and exactly where some of them were taken, so decided to have a poke around on Street View.

It will certainly save me time on driving around and trying to locate old buildings and I can now go along armed with notes on exactly where I need to be! It also gives you some idea of whether you are going to be able to recreate a scene without trees, hedges, other modern buildings obscuring the view. Obviously you can't get the right angles on street view, but it does at least give you the chance to study likely looking buildings which may have been heavily altered over the years to try and get a match!

An example below from the Martham collection. This is Repps Road in Martham c1907 and below it is the link to the modern Google Street view (can't embed the street view image on here, just ordinary Google maps) ... I was able to study the window, door positions etc and decide that it was the right place.

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.702375,1.630322&spn=0,359.986063&z=17&layer=c&cbll=52.702408,1.630453&panoid=OConXuuYB499egwh1cbV9w&cbp=12,52.64,,0,3.68



And this is Black Street c1910. I managed to locate the terrace of cottages on the left .... most of those on the right are now gone apart from one of the houses which you can see in the distance which is clearly identifiable on Street View.

Google Street View of the same location: http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.704631,1.633433&spn=0,359.986063&z=17&layer=c&cbll=52.704731,1.633435&panoid=OfY_ogDB_U-I_KMm4I7RGA&cbp=12,172.7,,1,2.91



So a very useful tool for this sort of thing!


Carol

[plesbit]

I am very impressed with the Google Street View views of these and I can see what a great tool it is going to be. I'm just a bit worried it might take some of the fun out of the going there and doing it bit!

[AdnamsGirl]

Kev and I managed to get around 15 or 16 Then & Nows done on our recently holiday ... I have only just started to work on them, but thought I'd post a few on this thread.

The first illustrates just how difficult it can be to get evrything right! This is Ballygate in Beccles .... firstly Kev wasn't quite close enough and secondly, he wasn't able to take it at a wide enough angle with his digital camera so the church is too tall in relation to the buildings in the foreground. It was also extremely difficult to do on a Saturday lunchtime on what is now a very busy road! I think we need to go back with one of our old 35mm cameras and a wide angles lens and try it again. However, it does show that this part of the town has changed very little since 1907 when the top image was taken.

Ballygate, Beccles

Staying in Beccles - this was a slightly better effort (although still needs to be taken with a wider angle lens) and shows Exchange Square. Many of the older building remain, but the rather obvious difference (apart from the traffic!) is that the large shop in the middle of the photograph has now gone. presumably this was demolished to widen the road? The earlier postcard dates from around 1909.

Exchange Square, Beccles

And another from Beccles ... this is Puddingmoor. The postcard also dates from 1909 and you can see that there is currently building work going on in the latest photo, which means that we will have to go back and retake this once it is completed. The row of old terraced houses in the foreground on the right have been demolished and new housing is presumably being built in their place. The buildings beyond still remain, as does the little cottage on the left. In the old postcard you can see a house up on the hill ... this is still there but is now obscured by trees.

Puddingmoor, Beccles

And finally, one for Dan! This is Thorpe St Andrew, looking across the river to the old Hearts boatyard. I think that the postcard dates from the early 1960s - if I had pulled Swift just a little further forward it would have looked very close to the original image!

Thorpe St. Andrew

Carol

[MY littleboat]

Excellent before and afters - this is by far my most visited thread on the forum and I end up studying the photos. Absolutely adore the fact that in some ways Broadland has 'stood still' and the fact that people would have had the same experiences on the river as we do now, and yet when you look again you see the footprint of progress and the inevitable changes...

A great record that I'm sure will grow and grow!

Thankyou